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ch.12 p. 158 "you aint got no business bringin' white chillun here-they got their church,we got our'n"
ReplyDeleteThis is said by Lula, a contentious member of First Purchase A.M.E. Zion Church. Lula has opposed Calpurnia bringing the Finch children to their segregated church. Although Lula was highly against it, the other members of the church, especially Reverend Sykes, had no problem with them being there and were very kind, sweet and even thankful. Lula's behavior was an example of a reoccuring theme of prejudice. Throughout the book so far, Atticus has preached that everybody should be treated equally with the same respect. Although Atticus has the correct state of mind, many others do not, like Lula. Lula shows that racism and prejudice cut both ways. Unfortunatly,many forms of prejudice are still go on in todays society. Even after the Civil War and all of the fighting for the freedom of african americans, rasism is still a huge prejudice in todays world.
Meredith, that line stood out to me too. I agree with you when you said "prejudice cut both ways." I feel that this theme has been expressed throughout the book, however it mainly focuses on whites being prejudice towards blacks. This caught my attention because it showed that blacks are against whites too. They often play the role of a victim, but they fail to realize that they are being hypocritical.
DeleteThis seems to me as if Lula wants no involvement with white people, and showed some resentment to them, which is completely understandable.
DeleteTo some extent I agree with you, Alyssa. However I feel like they are not so much "playing the role of a victim" as they really are one. After all, white people have done some pretty horrible things to blacks simply because of who they were. But in terms of hatred, I do think that, at least then, there was a strong feeling of resentment and hatred towards white people, though that hatred was, in my opinion, understandable.
"we're mighty glad to have you all here... we're mighty glad to have you all. on page 159 Zeebo(the garbage collector and Cal's oldest son said this to Jem and Scout when they arrived at church.
ReplyDeleteZeebo is showing Scout and Jem not to make judgements based on what one person says because it isn't fair to all the other people. In other words you need to experience something before judging it. If only the majority of people of Maycomb were taught the same lesson. Things like the Tom Robinson case would much different. I personnally have made judgements of someone, from what I heard from one person instead of actually getting to know them. For example, I heard bad things about my fifth grade and when I met her I realized that what I heard wasn't true and that she just deserved a chance. Zeebo's lesson applies to the world today in many ways. For instance, many people assume that all Muslims are crazy terrorists because they have heard about a small percentage that were. If they actually got to know many Muslims their opinions would be changed drastically. Would you like it if someone made judgements of you based on what they heard from someone else? I don't think so. Next time you are about to make a careless judgement think about what Zeebo said and reconsider what you about to do. Maybe you will even get know what you were judging and your opinion will be changed.
Jonah, I think you bring up a good point about how this lesson still does apply to the world today. It leads me to think that To Kill A Mockingbird is still read today, despite its age, because of its powerful messages that still apply no matter what time period or geographical region. What I'm beginning to notice is a pattern or reccurence of such themes throughout the book that still apply to our world today. I really liked your text to world/self connection!
DeleteJonah i too connected deeply to this quote. I believe that this quote is such a meaning full one for both Jem and Scout. It shows them how in life people should be treated equal no matter what the race and how differences are such a big deal in life. Differences help one another strive in things and show things that others maybe didn't think they possessed. Also by the way awesome text to self analysis. Loved the connection!
DeleteChapter 12-Page 167: "Cal, why do you talk n****r-talk to the- to your folks when you know it's not right?" After questioning Cal during their visit to church, Scout begins to realize how intelligent and literate Cal is. She asks why Cal speaks one way to blacks and another way to whites. This line in the book really made me think. It made me sad that Cal feels like she has to be two different people when in the presence of blacks verses whites. She is a very unique woman, in that she is literate, unlike many African Americans at the time. She explains to Scout and Jem that if she spoke properly to her community at church, they would think she was different or that she was showing off. I believe it's very interesting that Scout realized the difference in Cals attitude and dialect when in church. This proves that Scout is maturing and is curious about Cal. She has taken an interest in Cal and a side of her that she never knew. I feel that it's unfortunate that Cal felt like she couldn't openly express how intelligent she really was. She is no different from many people today. We often change something about ourselves to fit the "mold" that others expect of us.
ReplyDeleteAlyssa, I like that you brought up this quote. It is something I thought about too. Cal does seem to hold two "different" identities, depending on who she is with. Yes she does change the way she communicates, but would you agree that in a way she doesn't cared bout what other's think about her and her lifestyle? If she cared I don't think she would have invited Jem and Scout to church.
DeleteIn a way, I do feel that she doesn't care about what others think. I feel that it depends on the situation. I think maybe she felt it was important to be an example to the kids. To show them that color doesn't matter. I wonder what makes her different when it comes to the way she speaks, however she is willing to invite the Jem and Scout to church.
DeleteAlyssa, I agree in thinking that it's unfortunate that Cal can't show how intelligent she really is because of the fear of being disliked by her own race.
DeleteEileen, I think that you are partially right, but I feel that if she didn't care about what people said about her she wouldn't go through the trouble of changing her dialect when she is talking to black or white people
Alyssa, this also caught my attention. I found that this was a very interesting question asked by Scout. I agree with your statement of how sometimes people change something about themselves in order to fit the "mold" that others expect of them. For instance, at our age, some of us may feel pressured to fit in, and we will make changes with ourselves in order to feel like a part of something, and in order to be accepted by others. We are still searching for our identity.
DeleteCal is in a very unique situation, she seems to be a almost a symbol of segregation. It is clearly evident that if their was no racial discrimination then Cal would not have to act like two different people.
DeleteAlyssa,I agree with you completely about this situation. Cal has to be two different people(as what Tim said) just to gain the respect that she needs. So to gain respect she some what speaks two different languages towards blacks and whites. And if she doesnt speak differently, depending on the situation certain things good or bad can happen to her.
DeleteAlyssa, I also agree with you completely that Cal has to be two different people in order to be accepted. I also agree that Scout is growing up and maturing. I also agree that Cal is representing segregation (as Tim said) and is teaching Scout without having to explain anything, just with Scout observing. I also very much agree with the fact that people change to fit the "mold" that others expect of them. I felt bad for Cal as well and how she has to change depending on the people she is with.
DeleteWhile Cal does change her dialect when she talks to blacks, I disagree with your point that this is an example of her society stopping her from being her true self. I think that even though she is living in a time period and area where racism is an issue, she isn't afraid to fight it. If she was, she would've never bought Scout and Jem to church in the first place. As Meredith said in her post, "racism cuts both ways." Also, she doesn't completely disregard her education, she taught Zeebo to read. I'm sure all of us have kept certain things to ourselves so that we wouldn't make others feel bad before, and Cal is doing the same thing. She doesn't want to act like she's better than everyone else, which is polite. In a way, her education and wisdom is what leads her to make this choice and act this way because an immature person would flaunt their knowledge. Modest isn't always a bad thing.
DeleteAlyssa, you bring up a great point. This dialogue really makes me have a lot of respect for her. After reading this I had a new found admiration for her. We always knew she had good judgement because Atticus looks to her for a role model for the children more importantly Scout. This quote really displays her education and good values.
Delete"With him, life was routine; without him, life was unbearable. I stayed miserable for two days." Chapter 12, Paragraph 4. After Dill left, Scout said her life was not the same- it was undesirable for her. As she reminisced of the good times they shared together, it reminded me of what Mrs. Sarna said in class regarding Miss Maudie and the loss of her house. The scene with Miss Maudie taught the children not to be materialistic and not to dwell on the value of possessions. Instead, they were taught that possessions don't serve as much value as people do. Shown here, in Chapter 12 is Scout who is feeling very miserable because Dill had left. In my own opinion I believe Harper Lee did this on purpose to display the wise lesson previously introduced (through the characterization of Miss Maudie) in Chapter 8.
ReplyDeleteCorrection: Page 154, Chapter 12, Paragraph 4
DeleteBy the way, my idea for this entry was also influenced by the moral of the short story The Necklace by Guy De Maupassant. http://www.eastoftheweb.com/short-stories/UBooks/Neck.shtml.
DeleteSarah, I really like the point you bring up. It is shown that Scout learns valuable lessons from Miss Maudie. I love the friendship that Jem, and especially Scoutt, have with Dill. It is obvious that Scout values her friendship with Dill. It can be inferred that she knows the value of people over the value of materialistic items.
DeleteSarah, I agree with your point.Scout and Dill were close friends. Since the initial meeting there was something about Dill (Charles Baker Harris) that caught scouts attention. Maybe it was his blue linen shorts or his hair that was white as snow. Dill is a bit insecure and he felt comforted being around Jem and Scout. Scout and Dill as well as Jem get along because they all seem to enjoy each other's company and they have a blast playing their games. There is also alot of curiosity behind Dill and I think Scout likes that because the more they played and interacted , the more she discovered and unfolded.Dill is always a trustworthy and loyal friend to Scout. This is why when he left she misses him.
DeleteI agree with you Sarah and yes, this is also very similar to The Necklace. That is a very good point and connection. Eileen, I agree that Scout can recognize the value of people and possessions but i'm not quite sure if we can see a difference between the two for Scout yet. I think that she will learn to value people above possessions eventually but this will happen throughout the story as Scout grows up.
DeleteChapter 12-Page 156: "How'd you and Mister Jem like to come to church with me tomorrow?" While Atticus is away due to the state legislature he is involved in, Caplurnia invited the children to church. Cal shows she is a courageous person by requesting the kid's company that sunday morning. I think Cal and Atticus are two characters with many common characteristics. Both these characters are brave. When cal asks Jem and Scout to attend church with her, she is putting herself at risk. Cal expresses that she does not care what the rest of the people have to say about her decision. Next, Atticus shows he is fearless like Cal because he is defending a colored person in court against the word of a white women. Atticus is putting his reputation in jeopardy. Both these characters are determined and unconcerned about the opinions of the ones surrounding them.
ReplyDeleteEileen, I agree that Calpurnia and Atticus have a lot in common. They both teach Jem and Scout lessons about knowing right from wrong.
DeleteEileen, I understand completely about what you are saying. Calpurnia shows a strong and fearless attitude just like how Atticus has one. The both of them are basically standing up against segregation at their own will. They both show how couragous they are and how they dont care in what other people think.
DeleteBoth Cal and Atticus are alike and I think that because they are so like they are such good role models for Jem and Scout. They make up an odd family but its one that works and is better than other families in town. That why it makes me upset that Aunt Alexandra comes into town to be a "female figure". Scout said herself she already has a female figure in her life Cal. I think the fact that Scout recognizes her as a female figure in her life shows that she respects her.
DeleteEileen, I strongly agree with your comparison between Atticus and Calpurnia. They both have qualities which allow them to be a leader which include being able to be brave, and courageous when the people need it most. Also, the have the characteristics which may describe a even bigger group or community of people which consist of people during this time period and fight like a leader as well as being brave and courageous.
DeleteEileen, I think you brought up a great point. I to see many similarites between Attticus and Cal. other than the ones you said, They are both loving, great teachers and strict but fair. For example, when Scout made fun of her guest's manners, Cal pulled her into the kitchen and told her what she did wrong. she taught Scout a valuable lesson and was strict in her doing so. Also, when Dill, Jem and Scout were imitating Boo Radley, Atticus stopped them and asked them if they would like the same being done to themselves. This taught them another lesson. these examples show why Atticus and Cal are alike in many ways.
DeleteEileen, I think you brought up a great point. I to think that Cal and Atticus are alike in many ways. Other than what you mentioned I think they are both loving, great teachers and strict but fair. For example, when Scout made fun of guest's bad manners, Cal pulled her into the kitchen and told her why what she was doing was wrong. She strict but fair to Scout and I think it taught Scout a valuable lesson. Also, when Scout, Dill and jem were imitating Boo Radley, Atticus stopped and asked them if they would like if someone imitated them. Although he might have been strict about it, he showed them right from wrong.
DeleteEileen, I think you brought up a great point. I to think that Cal and Atticus are alike in many ways. Other than what you mentioned I think they are both loving, great teachers and strict but fair. For example, when Scout made fun of guest's bad manners, Cal pulled her into the kitchen and told her why what she was doing was wrong. She strict but fair to Scout and I think it taught Scout a valuable lesson. Also, when Scout, Dill and jem were imitating Boo Radley, Atticus stopped and asked them if they would like if someone imitated them. Although he might have been strict about it, he showed them right from wrong.
DeleteEileen, I think you brought up a great point. I to think that Cal and Atticus are alike in many ways. Other than what you mentioned I think they are both loving, great teachers and strict but fair. For example, when Scout made fun of guest's bad manners, Cal pulled her into the kitchen and told her why what she was doing was wrong. She strict but fair to Scout and I think it taught Scout a valuable lesson. Also, when Scout, Dill and jem were imitating Boo Radley, Atticus stopped and asked them if they would like if someone imitated them. Although he might have been strict about it, he showed them right from wrong.
DeleteIn Chapter 13, Aunt Alexandria comes to visit the Finch household displays her view on social class. She is always trying to just tell everyone in Scouts family what she thinks best. She is especially concerned by Scouts manners as a Woman. This makes many readers think that she is narrow-minded because the book takes on the view of Scout. I think that Aunt Alexandria has some likable qualities about her. She has a lot of pride for the family so her caring goes deeply. I personally like Aunt Alexandria as a character and she reminds me of my Grandmother who is just telling me what her parents told her to do as a child a generation before.
ReplyDeleteTim, I agree with you when you said how Aunt Alexandra has a lot of pride for the family. She is trying to do what she thinks is best for them, even though it may not appear that way. Aunt Alexandra never raised a girl; she has a son named Francis. I think that because she never had the experience raising a girl in the first place, trying to help raise Scout will be a challenge for both her and Scout. Scout is more of a tom-boy, as this could almost give Aunt Alexandra an advantage point, knowing that she raised a son who exhibited somewhat similar characteristics and interests. However, this also makes it more difficult for her to raise Scout as a woman, because Scout doesn’t care about clothing and boys, and she doesn’t see why she needs to be and act like a woman. Aunt Alexandra reminds me of my grandma also. She was very controlling and in charge, and she always tried to do what was best for my brothers and I, even though it never seemed like it.
DeleteTim, I agree with you. Aunt Alexandria is just trying to do what is best for her family... in this case she is trying to help Scout become more lady like. Also I like what Sophie said, how Aunt Alexandria doesnt have a daughter, so it's going to be a challange for the two of them to make Scout more like a women.
DeleteI agree with you Tim, that Aunt Alexandria is trying to do what she thinks is best, but I feel that it would help her to listen to Scout's opinions. It's always better to have many different perspectives on a situation. While I don't agree with some of her views, she is a great role model for Scout because of her stubbornness and "my way or the highway" attitude. While Scout finds her annoying now, she is learning to be a strong woman, speak her opinions and not need to rely on anyone else. This is something that Atticus is also trying to do by representing Tom Robinson, so it seems that he and his sister may actually have some things in common.
DeleteI really like how you displayed a point that none of us really wanted to see in Aunt Alexandra. We say that Aunt Alexandra should stop being so judgmental about Scout and look at all the good qualities in her but we refuse to do that for Alexandra, so it's important that you bring that up.
DeleteTim, i strongly agree with your statement. Aunt Alexandra is a strong-hearten person who isn't afraid to share her own views as well as opposing others. Also, she has a great deal of care for her family and always willing to stand up for what she or what the family believe in.
DeleteTim, i also strongly agree with you. i think Aunt Alexandra says everything she says from the heart and doesn't intend to hurt anyone with her opinion. She defiantly cares about what people think about her family and wants people to think the best of them.
DeleteI agree with you Tim about Aunt Alexandria trying to do what is best for her family. In my opinion, I think she is trying softly to say to both Jem and Scout that both of them are going to go through puberty or become mature sooner or later. Also, Even though Aunt Alexandria shows her concern towards Scout, Atticus tries to tell both Jem and Scout are going to have to mature "soon". But as Mrs. Sarna said in class, Aunt Alexandria will become likable towards in the end or in part 2.
DeleteI agree with you Tim about Aunt Alexandria trying to do what is best for her family. In my opinion, I think she is trying softly to say to both Jem and Scout that both of them are going to go through puberty or become mature sooner or later. Also, Even though Aunt Alexandria shows her concern towards Scout, Atticus tries to tell both Jem and Scout are going to have to mature "soon". But as Mrs. Sarna said in class, Aunt Alexandria will become likable towards in the end or in part 2.
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DeleteChapter 13- page 158 "It's the same God ain't it?" I think Cal makes a good point when she is responding back to Lula about bringing Jem and Scout to the First Purchase Church. Lula is obviously discriminating Jem and scout from being in that church. I feel that Lula should know better and that Cal is absolutely right and that it is the same God that they are worshipping so why should it matter if Jem and Scout are white. I think that this relates to a part of the theme because not only did Maycombs white people discriminate against blacks, but black people did the same to the white
ReplyDeleteChapter 12*
DeleteJackie I absolutely love this quote. This quote can relate to the outside world today. Yes both colored and whites believe in the same god, kind of like many religions believe in the same god today. Like the times in the Great Depression, followers of many practiced religions discriminate against each other and don't accept each other's differences.
DeleteI have to agree with both of you! I think religion is something that divides us further apart and to have someone bring up that, even in a time when people were not very accepting of change was brave and showed her how good of a role model Calpurnia really is. Religion is a tricky subject and I just really loved this quote because it sums up that we are really all believing in some higher power and it's just amazing.
DeleteJackie, when I read that quote I thought it was great too and I totally agree with what you are saying. This quotes shows that blacks and whites are the same, they just have a different skin color. Both blacks and whites discriminated each other and this quote shows us that if you think about it, neither skin color is better than the other. I wish the people of Maycomb would realize the message of this quote because they think they are superior to blacks and that blacks don’t deserve to live in the same place as them. Life on earth would be more peaceful if everyone just realized that we are all worshipping the same god and no matter what we look like, how we speak or what we wear we are all the same.
DeleteCh. 12, p. 167 ". . . folks don't like somebody around knowin' more than they do." Calpurnia says this to Jem and Scout after they ask her why she speaks differently to her black friends when she knows better. Jem and Scout aren't mature enough to know what Calpurnia was talking about. It's true that you have to talk to different people in different ways. When I talk to my parents, I have to talk to them with respect unlike when I'm with my friends. I still respect my friends, but I don't speak in a formal way with them. I use more colloquial language. I think Calpurnia is teaching them a lesson which connects to the theme in the novel about growing up.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you jenny because when I'm with my parents I speak to them respectfully, but with my friends, I speak completely different using the coloquial language. I think that is what Calpurnia is trying to say. Friends,talk as you want and adult people, respectfully :)
DeleteI agree with you jenny because when I'm with my parents I speak to them respectfully, but with my friends, I speak completely different using the coloquial language. I think that is what Calpurnia is trying to say. Friends,talk as you want and adult people, respectfully
DeleteChapter 12 Page 154: “… Mister Jem’s growin’up. He’s gonna want to be off to himself…” I strongly feel that Calpurnia is trying to explain to Scout that everyone grows up at some point and that you just have to let them be themselves/let them do what they want. This happens to all of us, at some point we want to learn to do things on our own and sometimes we don’t want others getting in the way. We hit the stage were we try to take on more responsibility and try to do less childish things to prove to others that we are maturing. So basically saying, Jem wants to be noticed as a more mature person through other peoples eyes, and by doing so he is not as “childish” with Scout anymore.
ReplyDeleteI totally agree with what you said Matt. I also believe that we all have to grow up and when we do we want our distance. This was the same for me. I think that Scout thinks Jem is acting so weird because all she knows are younger kids. She hasn't been around older kids that are growing up and taking on responsibilty because she been isolated from them. After she gets used to the way Jem is acting I think she will understand why he acts that way. I also think Jem will calm down a little bit bacuse he is just going throught a phase.
DeleteI got to say thing quote really relate to the real world. people got to understand that different people start growing in different ways and start acting like a real adult. many people act little kids and dont realize that there old enough and they shouldnt act like a 4 year old and grow up. lots of kids are different and grow up slow.
Deletejust like scout and jem b yhe way
DeleteI like Jonah connected to the quote by Zeebo on page 159 "we're mighty glad to have you all here... we're mighty glad to have you all. This is what Cal and the man that collected the garbage in town said to Scout and Jem when they came to church on sunday. I think what the garbage man and Zeebo where trying to portray to Scout and Jem is that everyone should be accepted and differences in life are not bad. For example how boring do you think life would be if everyone was the same, differences is what makes someone like others and myself stand out in society. Back then in the south you may have known how differences led to many acts of violence and hate just like how readers can see happens in the small town of Maycomb. For instance in the Tom Robinson case people are accusing him of a crime that they have no proof him doing just because his skin color is different. See what i mean things like this show how people were against differences and that got into the way of revealing the truth and nothing but the truth. I believe that no matter what skin color or what ever human characteristic someone has, everyone is to be treated equal and therefore racial equality should always be in tact no matter the situation. Although Zeebo's valuable lesson is not used as much today because of progress in racial equality. It can all teach us a lesson on how everyone is equal and by respecting each other will only make our nation better and better as the years go on.
ReplyDeletei agree with you mike, that it is unfair that tom robinson is being accused of something he did not do and will not be able to be freed because of his skin color. and yes zeebo's very insightful lesson isnt used as much today but i personally think that it should be. even with all the progress over the years in racial equality, African Americans and other races are still treated unfairly and stereotyped against.
DeleteP.S. just to let you know, zeebo happens to be the garbage man of the town and calpurnia's eldest son.
I agree with you Mike and I liked how you point how difference is a good thing, not a bad thing. Back then, I just hoped that everyone could accept each other, even if they were different. With this case of Tom Robinson, it is most likely he would be proven guilty because of how everyone has different opinions towards African Americans.
DeleteI agree with you Mike and I liked how you point how difference is a good thing, not a bad thing. Back then, I just hoped that everyone could accept each other, even if they were different. With this case of Tom Robinson, it is most likely he would be proven guilty because of how everyone has different opinions towards African Americans.
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DeleteChapter 12 p.164-165 "Calpurina sighed "oh Mr.Bob Ewell accused him of rapin' his girl...Well everyone in Maycomb knows what kind of folks the Ewell's are...what's rape Cal? " I love this quotes because I think it says a lot about the theme of growing up and Scout as a person. When Scout asks what rape is and doesn't know what it means, it's shows an innocent sort of naive side of her, and that displays the theme of growing up because she still doesn't know what it means but is introduced to these unfortunate subjects we all have to come into contact eventually. This happens to us in real life as well. There is always something we come into contact with much to early that takes away our innocence a little bit because we're do not believe the world is as good and safe as it used to be, and that itself is a huge part of growing up. Secondly, when Scout doesn't even know what rape is but automatically knows that it is a lie because she uses common sense that if the Ewell's said it can't be true. This shows that she is wise beyond her years because she can look past what people are saying and into the truth of the situation and that's a skill most people today don't even obtain.
ReplyDeleteThis beautifully shows Scout innocence and reminds the reader that she is such a young girl. I think as readers we sometimes forget how old Scout is. When you put it into perspective and see how young she is and see the impending storm of the Tom Robinson case it makes you wonder what will happen and how she will deal with the problems to come. I also agree that Scout is wonderful at making insights into society at such a young age.
DeleteI totally agree with you Sam. You're right about it showing how she is naive about these serious topics, but knows they can't be true. Not only that, but this is a great example of why Scout wants to grow up and learn more about the world. She is always asking Atticus and Calpurnia questions about not only who did what, but why they did it. She is a very smart girl who is not only willing to learn, but willing to.
DeleteChapter 13 Page 171: "I said I would like it verry much, which was a lie... when one can't do anything about them." This is thought by Scout after Atticus asks her if she would like Aunt Alexandria to live with them. I believe that Scout is making a great point when she thought this because there is no use stirring up trouble when there is nothing you can do about it. I thnk Scout is making a mature decision by lying when asked about Aunt Alexandria. If she had spoke her mind Aunt Alexandria's feeling would be hurt. Although most of the time Aunt Alexandria isn't considerate enough to spare others feeling, that doesn't make it right to do the same back to her. This is a good lesson that many people could think about before they act, it could make their lives and the lives of people around them much easier. I know for a fact that many times I should have done the same thing. For example, when my annoying cousin asked to play with me and I told him he couldn't, I should have put his feelings before mine. I realize now that I wouldn't be happy if someone neglected my feelings and in the future I will think about that. Would you like it if someone did the same thing to you?
ReplyDeleteEarlier in the book when Jem and Dill rejected Scout after she asked to play with them, is another instance where someone should have thought how the other would feel before they acted. Instead, Scout ended up feeling unwanted and not good enough. After reading the quote I know I learned a great lesson and I hope everyone else did to.
Chapter 12, page 165: “They can’t read.” “Can’t read?” I asked. “All of those folks?” “…about four folks in First Purchase read… I’m one of ‘em.” After the visit to Cal’s church, Jem, Scout and Cal are walking back home and are talking about hymn-books. Jem was saying how if the church saved their collection money for one year, they would be able to buy some. Cal then replies that it would be of no use, since hardly anybody in the church is able to read. This shows how many blacks had little to no education. I find this extremely sad, because Scout is only six years old, and she is already able to read. It is sad to see how a little girl like Scout can read, and people around Cal’s age, so around 50 or so, are unable to read. Scout and Jem are also receiving a proper education, unlike the blacks. This shows the reoccurring theme of racism and discrimination, and how the blacks were not allowed privileges such as a proper education.
ReplyDeleteSophie, I'm glad you brought up this quote. I agree that it has to do with the theme of racism and discrimination in the novel. In today's world, people still discriminate, but we all have rights that many didn't have back then. Jem and Scout, along with every child in America should appreciate the fact that it is mandatory to attend school until a certain age. Imagine what life would be like if not everyone had a fair education.
DeleteWow Sophie good point! What bothers me even more is the fact that segregation meant that the blacks and whites were "separate but equal" however, they were separate and not equal what so ever. This reminds me of when Atticus tells Jack in Chapter 9 that Tom Robinson is innocent but his being guilty in the eyes of the jury was inevitable. Had Tom been white, the court would undoubtedly declare him innocent. Blacks and whites were surely not equal in this time period.
DeleteGreat quote and analysis Sophie :D I totally agree that it demonstrates the theme of racism! I would also like to bring up when Aunt Alexandria says that she's come to stay with Scout and Jem to be a "feminine influence" for Scout (chapter 13, page 170). I find Aunt Alexandria reasoning racist against Calpurnia. Both Scout and her Aunt know Calpurnia is around Scout enough to act as a role model for her, but Aunt Alexandria must have something against that idea. Probably because Calpurnia is black. Scout's aunt is treating Calpurnia differently because of her race.
DeleteGreat quote and analysis Sophie :D I totally agree that quote demonstrates the effects of racism. I would also like to bring up another example of racism from chapter 13. When Aunt Alexandria goes to live with Scout and Jem, her reasoning is so Scout can have "feminine influence" (page 170). This is displaying racism toward Calpurnia. It's as if Aunt Alexandria was saying Scout cant have a Black role model.
DeleteGreat quote and analysis Sophie :D I totally agree that quote demonstrates the effects of racism. I would also like to bring up another example of racism from chapter 13. When Aunt Alexandria goes to live with Scout and Jem, her reasoning is so Scout can have "feminine influence" (page 170). This is displaying racism toward Calpurnia. It's as if Aunt Alexandria was saying Scout cant have a Black role model.
DeleteGreat quote and analysis Sophie :D I totally agree that quote demonstrates the effects of racism. I would also like to bring up another example of racism from chapter 13. When Aunt Alexandria goes to live with Scout and Jem, her reasoning is so Scout can have "feminine influence" (page 170). This is displaying racism toward Calpurnia. It's as if Aunt Alexandria was saying Scout cant have a Black role model.
DeleteChapter 13 Page 177 "Your aunt has has asked me to try and impress upon you....that you are not from run-of-the-moll people, that you are the product of several generations' gentle breeding-". I was surprised with the conversation that Atticus has with Jem and Scout. Aunt Alexandra is a character that cares a lot about pride, but I don't think this makes her very like-able. I was shocked with what Atticus told the children because to me it seemed like Atticus was expressing something we haven't seen in him before by agreeing with Aunt Alexandra. Atticus seemed to be doubting his parenting skills by telling his children what Aunt Alexandra wanted. Atticus shouldn't doubt his parenting skills. I view him as a determined parent, that has a strong connection with his children. Unlike Holden Caulfield's parents in Catcher in the Rye. I know that Holden faced many problems, and his parents aren't the main reason for his mental breakdown, but I think that Jem and Scout are stronger individuals because of their father, who is also their teacher, and friend.
ReplyDeleteI strongly agree with you Eileen, I don't think those are Atticus's belief and either does Scout she even said that Aunt Alexandra had a way of declaring what was best for the family. So I think his hand was forced in one have Aunt Alexandra coming over and then talking to his kids about how you should live up to your family name. Also you can see Atticus debating wether or not he said the right thing because he told them he didn't want them to remember everything a Finch was supposed to do. Hopefully Atticus keeps on teaching the kids how to be their own individuals and not just be recognized by their family name.
DeleteYou are so right with your connection to Holden Caulfield. Building off of that, are you suggesting that parents heavily influence things such as a childs personality and interests? I noticed that Scout isn't exactly a "girly-girl", could this be because she was mainly influenced solely by her father? Do you think Aunt Alexandra is right in saying that Scout needs a feminine influence?
DeleteEileen, I completely agree with you, Atticus should never doubt his parenting skills. Many people in Maycomb think he is a bad father, but many of them have children much worse off or none at all. Your connection to Holden really shows that the relatable themes in this story may be why it is so popular. Even though the two books were written in different time periods, they have many similarities.
DeleteChapter 13 Page 177: “And that you should try to live up to your name…you must try to behave like the little lady and gentleman that you are.” I think that Atticus is trying to make a point. That he doesn’t want his kids to grow up differently then what they’ve been taught. This happens with most of us and our families. They don’t want us to discourage the family name. A lot of the time parents often remind their children what is proper and what isn’t when we out. They have been teaching us not to do anything immature and bring disrespect upon our families. Atticus is saying the same thing… he wants his children to act civilized and respectful to what is around them.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteEileen, adding onto your comment, I agree with the fact that Atticus is changing his parenting skills in order to agree with Aunt Alexandra. What you said is a great example of what occurred on page 178. ("Stop that noise," Atticus said. His curtness strung me...That was not my father. My father never thought these thoughts. My father never spoke so. Aunt Alexandra had put him up to this, somehow.)
DeleteTotally agree. I easily relate this to my family. My parents always expect good things from me because thats how they raised me. Same goes for the way Atticus teaches his kids.Throughout the book he's been helping and correcting his kids because thats how he wants poeple to know them as, good kids.
DeleteWhile I agree with the fact that he doesn't want his kids to act differently, I don't agree that Atticus is worried about his children ruining their family name because Aunt Alexandra has made it clear that Atticus has done so by taking on the case of Ewells Vs. Tom Robinson. He knew the repercussions of taking that cas but did so anyway. However, he does care that his children are respectful to everyone and be civilized human beings.
DeleteThe finches all around take pride in their family and want their children too grow up proper. Atticus teaches his family slightly differently though. He always tells his children what is right and wrong but he leaves enough room in his teaching for his children to grow up as unique individuals and figure out life their own way.
DeleteMatt, I like the connection you have made. I didn't think about his conversation with his kids like this when I read it. I agree, our parents want us to be proper and to make our families proud, but Jem and Scout are still very young, in my opinion. I don't think they have done anything wrong, and I understand Atticus wants to be a good father and have them be a lady and gentleman, but I think he is changing his parenting skills to agree with what Aunt Alexandra wants his children to be like.
ReplyDeleteChapter 13: Page 158
ReplyDelete[ "It's the same God ain't it?" )
I Choose this quote because Calpurnia makes a good point. Religion is very controversial. Weather your believe in a God Or God, or some type of superior force. This is because everybody has there own belief's and interpretation. Another controversial subject is race, weather your Black or White or Asian or Hispanic or any race. People judge and expect not to be judged. Calpurnia is the Finches Cook/Maid , she has gained the respect of both the children and Atticus. She is an example for Scout as well as the other kids.When Calpurnia decides to bring Scout and Jem to the Purchase Church ( Titled this because it was bought with the freed slaves first earnings) Lulu is a bit bothered and criticizes there her intention. Since black kids were not allowed at white churches she did not understand why she had to accept and let them in. The rest of the church welcome both Jem and Scout. This just shows how judgmental Lula is, not being able to accept the fact that were all equal. The only limitations there are, are the ones we put for ourselves. God dosen't believe in the division by color. So when Calpurnia says : " It's the same God ain't it" she's pursuing the message that no matter what church, weather everyone's black or white they are there for the same purpose. I Believe this is one of the themes.
I agree with you Lisdy it is a theme of the book for sure. Also, you brought up some other controversial topics in the beginning. Doesn't it seem like the whole book is revolved around controversies of this time period? Regarding race, in the book so far we have been exposed to those who support segregation and prejudice and those who do not. It is quite a major theme of the book, too.
DeleteYess your right sarah, social inequality is a big theme too !
DeleteLisdy i like what you are saying about equality. I totally agree how during these times equality had to be more demandable in all the categories including religion, skin color, and more importantly social equality. Everyone deserves a place in society no matter what color, religion or family past everyone deserves a chance and during this time people just needed to come together as one nation united.
DeleteI Agree With You On That Mikee(:
Delete"I said I would like it very much, which was a lie, but one must lie under certain circumstances and at all times when one can't do anything about them." Chapter 13 Paragraph 3
ReplyDeleteThis was Scout's reply when Atticus asked her about whether or not she wanted Aunt Alexandra to live with them. Us as readers know that Scout didn't want her aunt to live with them, and we also know that she lied to Atticus. I think it would be safe to say that Scout values the opinion and approval of her father. Throughout the book Jem and Scout are found constantly trying to please Atticus. For example, in Chapter 6, Jem made sure that he recovered his pants not only for his personal benefit, but to keep on good terms with Atticus. There is no doubt in my mind that the children have a great level of respect for Atticus. Not only do they value his opinion, but they often change their own opinions based off of his intellect. To be honest however, at times, the relationship between Atticus, Jem and Scout resembles one between a grandfather and a grandchild as opposed to one between a father and a child. I think this because in the present day US, more respect is shown towards a grandfather as opposed to a father. It could be because grandfathers are more experienced and wiser than their sons.
Sarah you a right, Atticus has certain expectations for Scout and she wouldn't want to disappointing him. Alot of the decicions she makes, she takes in mind weather Atticus will agree or diagree with her.
DeleteI really like the quote you picked Sarah! It does show Scout's need to please her father. I also have noticed the the other times in the book were both Scout and Jem seek approval of Atticus. I think this very much shows the respect both Jem and Scout have for there father. They seem to never want Atticus to be upset or mad at them.
DeleteI strongly agree with you Sarah in what you said about the relationship between Atticus, Scout, and Jem. Even though Scout and Jem don't really say it by word that they respect Atticus, there are several events in the book that show that both Scout and Jem respect Atticus as a father and also take what he says to them as a form of "matters" in a way.
DeleteI strongly agree with you Sarah on how you discuss the relationship between Atticus, Scout, and Jem. Even though Scout and Jem don't say it by word that they respect Atticus, there are certain events in the book that show that both Scout and Jem respect Atticus and take what he said to them, as a way of matters.
DeleteCh. 12, p. 167 "Rest of the colored folks. Cal, but you talked like they did in church..." During the time at Calpurnia's church, both Jem and Scout notice the difference in her way of talking, in comparison to her talking at their house and at her church. As I once heard before, "we wear many masks". This made me come to think of how Calpurnia's language towards her peers in her church somewhat switches because of her fitting in. In the beginning of the chapter, a friend of Calpurnia, Lula, questions Cal why she brings Scout and Jem to their church. Scout realizes the tone of Cal's voice of it being quiet and contemptuous, like it being strange to her and how Cal's voice was talking like the rest of them. This point in the chapter really made me come to think that the reason why Cal's voice may have been "switched" could be because of her social background. She spoke differently maybe because of her not wanting any problems between the "two worlds" and maybe because of not intimidating her peers if she had spoken the same way she speaks to Scout and Jem. A couple years ago, Will Smith had a very interesting interview with Vanity Fair in which he speaks very formal at work or at business settings and switches to a black dialect with his family and friends. With Calpurnia's answer to the question of Scout's, I think it's an answer that is perfect that also relates to us today. I am sure everybody speaks differently with other people, with their friends, clubs, etc. Calpurnia's answer towards Scout shows that we also switch "voices" today to be with our friends and also connects to the theme of growing up.
ReplyDeleteI Agree with you James ( Jems ) because I do see and believe that Calpurnia changes her voice and character, from when she is at home with the kids and when she takes them to church. I Think its because at home she puts up an image which gains her respect from both Scout and Jem and Atticus. It might as well just be the situation too.. this being Lulu got on her bad side and she changed based upon how Lulu talked to her.
DeleteChapter 12, Page 167: " It's not necessary to tell all you know. Its no ladylike-in the second place, folks don't like to have somebody around knowin' more than they do.It aggravates 'em. Your not gonna change any of them by talkin' right, they've got to want to learn themselves, and when they don't want to learn there's nothing you can do but keep your mouth shut or talk their language." Calpurnia says this to Jem and Scout on their way back from church after Scout asks why she talks a little differently at church than she usually does. I think that Calpurnia is trying to tell Jem and Scout that sometimes people talk differently to others that might be their friends or family. I definitely can connect with this because I usually talk or act differently around friends and family. People can be very surprised to see another act differently towards someone than their used to but like Calpurnia is trying to describe, it is what they are comfortable with and just because they are talking a different way does not mean that they are an entirely different person.
ReplyDeleteChapter 12 pg. 165 "Wouldn't do any good they can't read." Calpurnia said this to Scout after mass in the First Purchase church, how Scout responds to this statement is very important. Scout replies "Cant read? All those folks?" It shows that Scout has little knowledge of the Black community and only knows what she has been told by people in Maycomb. I think this is a problem that occurred in real life and in the book. Little children in the south only knew what their parents told them about Blacks, so if you had a racist parent then they would tell you all the "evils" black people commit. This would then turn you off from evening meeting an African-American person and actually seeing how they are. Luckily Scout has Atticus to at least teach her that Black men and women are equal to White men and women. I believe that while Atticus has taught her such things she didn't realize how bad off African-American people were until she saw it at the church first hand. This leads me to believe that Scout will better understand why Atticus is trying to help Tom Robinson in the first place. There is evidence of this because Scout asks Calpurnia if she can come over to her house. This shows that Scout wants to be educated about Black people and not just take in gossip that she hears. Also since Scout learned what the trial was about (except for the meaning of rape) and that it was the Ewells that are accusing Tom Robinson, she knew that something wasn't right even at such a young age. However I feel her ability to make acute observations might get her in trouble. I wonder what will happen to Scout socially as the trial approaches and how Atticus responds to the rough times to come. As well as what role Boo Radley will play in the coming chapters, he must play an important role for Harper Lee to spend so much time explaining him and developing him as a character. In all I think misinformation about the African-American population caused a lot of prejudice to occur, which brings up the question did racist people in the 1920's learn such prejudice from their parents or where they born with a hate agaisnt others and their differences
ReplyDeleteZach, I strongly agree with your quote. Scout did begin to show qualities of being a "know-it-all" or believe to argue the right with her view on the world, but Scout does begin to learn as the book moves through and we do begin to see Scout and even Jem maturing and learning. Also, Scout begins to see that the world they live in has many sides to it and even through their dark times and golden times, we have to learn from our mistakes from the paste and make sure that we shouldn't make the same mistake in the future.
DeleteI agree with you that scout didn't know much about the black community and that her ability to make acute observations could get her into trouble especially sense people don't like being sown up by younger people but I think that it will become a necessary ability for her in the coming months if she wants to have any clue about what is going on.
DeleteCh.12, p. 154 ''Oh, go on and leave me alone. i'm readin' the paper.'' when jem got his wish he departed for the kitchen while she was shelling peas.
ReplyDeleteChapter 13 page 169 "For a while in Maycomb meant anything from three days to thirty years." These were the words said by Scout after Aunt Alexandra stated that she would be staying for a while. The reason that i find this quote interesting is because i think what she meant is that since the times were so bad being the great depression, you didn't really know how long somebody would be staying in town. Whether it would be for a job oppurtunity to give someone the chance to put food on the table for their family or just a visit, during this time people continued too scatter about searching for opportunities to possibly give their families the best quality of life they could possibly have. I also think maybe the reason she said this is because she is used to seeing people come and go in the town of Maycomb and esspicially during this time where poverty and racism were just a part of life and it was up to people to overcome these obstacles and make life for their families and their selves a good way of life. Overall i now totally understand what Scout meant by this quote and with all the other things that are occuring during this time period it helps back up her theory. Even in present day America we still see how new oppurtunities bring better things and when it was time to go, there was no choice but to go and hope for the best.
ReplyDeleteDuring this historical time period blacks and whites were segregated. In chap. 12 p.136 Harper Lee gives us a vivid description of what separate but not equal really was "First Purchase was uncieled and unpainted within....pine benches served as pews...a faded pink banner....the churches only decoration." This is only a small portion of a long paragraph describing the all black, small, rinky-dink church, but I hope it gives you general sense of it. Scout's observations of the church show us the theme of separate but not equal. Scout comments that there were no pianos, organs, hymn-books and church programs, which she was so familiar with at her church. She is witnessing how unequal blacks and white are because she sees that Cal’s church only has a pine benches and none of what Scouts feels are the ‘church essentials’. In class, we learned that blacks couldn’t even eat with whites. They had to eat in the back or use a separate entrance. Also, blacks had to drink out of separate water fountains, which were uncleanly. Segregation led to being separate but not equal, and this novel displays that perfectly.
ReplyDeleteI think that this description really shows how much progress we have made, now being in 2012. That treatment was cruel and I am happy that we are not there anymore.
DeleteNice connection Tony. It is very true that the blacks were separate and not equal which was a very bad time in our history and, like Lauryn, i am glad it isn't like that anymore. Just to add to Tony's list of segregated places, we all know of Rosa Parks and the bus incident which was also something very bad.
DeleteThis is a good observation and i completly agree. The way Harper Lee deals with all these problems in the book is perfect, especially the way Atticus does. We know that Atticus defends Tom Robinson and doesn't want his kids using the "n" word and way Scout and Jem act towards blacks shows that. Writing a story at that time about not hating blacks was tough, but give Harper Lee credit because she did it perfectly.
DeleteChapter 13 p.171 "How'd you like for her to come live with us? I said I would like it very much, which was a lie, but one must learn to lie under certain circumstances and at all times when one can't do anything about them" This is another example of growing up and how Scout is wise is beyond her years. She is still naive to the fact that she is coming because Atticus will be extremely caught up in the trial and Aunt Alexandra needs to influence her in the "proper" feminine way. But Scout is also so smart to know that certain situations we need to lie to protect those around us or because the truth is unavoidable. When I was Scouts age I surely didn't know when to hold back my tongue unlike Scout. That's an important lesson to learn.
ReplyDeleteSam, I completely agree with you. I feel that Scout has demonstrated maturity beyond her years. Unlike Scout, most children don't know when to hold back what they feel. I believe that instead of focusing on external aspects of Scout, that Aunt Alexandra should focus on what a well-rounded and mature young lady she is.
DeleteThat is a really great way to think of it, not just in the book but in general. It's important to look inside rather then out. Aunt Alexandra would be mush more appealing as a person if she wasn't so judgmental based on what the norm is.
DeleteI Agree with both Sam and Alyssa, I do believe Scout is maturing and she not only shows this in this quote but in other quotes as well for example : " i know what he was trying to do, but Atticus was only a man. It takes a women to do that kind of work." She starts to put things into perspective and become more aware of her feelings and surroudings !
DeleteThis just makes me love Scout more. It really shows that she's growing up and maturing. A lot of people say Scouts not a lady and is a tom boy, and she is. But quotes like this also prove she's a very smart little girl because she's smart enough to know men can't do those kind of things! It's like when you have those moments with your dad and they're trying get through to you but just don't know how to go about it, just like Atticus.
DeleteIn chapter 13 we learn that Aunt Alexandra has moved in with the Finches. At first, I was really upset about this. I felt that she was incredibly judgmental of the Atticus and his children. In previous chapters, she often complained about how Scout was not "lady-like." She was very concerned about how the Finch family would be viewed by their community. She seems to be very focused on the fact that Scout needs a female influence in her life. While I do feel that a female influence in a young girls life is very important, I believe that Aunt Alexandra has failed to realize that at this point, Scout is a happy young girl. Whether she likes to play with dolls and wear dresses is really a non-important factor in her life. For the most part, parents just want their children to be happy. There are plenty of young girls who are "tom boys" and they do just fine and turn out to be great successes. I feel that Aunt Alexandra doesn't give Atticus enough credit. He is a single father and has managed to raise two nice young children. I do understand that Aunt Alexandra is trying to be helpful, however in my opinion, she is not seeing the greater picture in the situation. While I don't feel that it's necessary to live with the Finches, I do feel that if she is going to, she should make a greater effort to actually get to know the kids. She is of very little help to Scout if she doesn't know her personality and cant relate to her.
ReplyDeleteWhile it is true that Aunt Alexandra has not given enough credit to Atticus and she is sometimes over the top with being prim and proper, I think that living with the Finches will be good for her and might even loosen her up a bit.
Deletei agree that Alexandra should get to know the children better. maybe if she understood why scout doesn't like to go to tea parties, she would be able to be a little less gender prejudice towards her. i know that alexandra has a granson, francis. francis is a boy who seems very mature for his age and i dont think that is a very helpful for her understanding of scout. if alexandra took the time and atticus' advice to scout, to put herself in someone elses shoes, Alexandra would realize scout being a tomboy really inst something to fret.
DeleteChapter 12, page 153: At this point in the story Jem is going through a major change, and Scout is having trouble dealing with this change. "Jem was growing. I must be patient with him and disturb him as little as possible." I am beginning to see similarities between Catcher in the Rye's Holden Cauffield and Scout. They both seem to have trouble dealing with change and this theme is prominent in both of these books. Near the end of the page, you can clearly see that Scout is having trouble accepting the fact that Jem is growing up when she says "He ain't that old," "All he needs is somebody to beat him up, and I ain't big enough." Jem getting beat up or not isn't the reason he is changing, it is just a natural change, but Scout can't see that. That is another theme that exists in Catcher in the Rye as well. Just like Holden, Scout is unable to see and unwilling to accept the fact that everyone has to grow up and cant stay young forever.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you completely. Do you think that Atticus influenced Scout to feel like that about growing up? I think he might because at times he seems to be sheltering her from things like how he had the best shot in town. He didn't want her to think that being a man with a gun makes you courageous.
DeleteJared, I completely agree with this. I actually hadn't thought about it until now, but that's a really good point. I didn't really see the connection between the two books, but now that you mentioned it it's actually a huge theme in both of the books. I think it's also an important one, especially in Aunt Alexandra's opinon. She also wants Scout to realize that everyone has to mature and grow up.
DeleteSarah, I don't think it's Atticus' fault that Scout cannot understand change. He reads with her and is always available to answer her questions, but he cannot change her age. She is only 6 and I know I hated change when I was that little, too. My mom bought me a bookcase for my room and I absolutely hated it for weeks, I didn't want it in my room simply because it was new and hadn't always been there. Scout may be observant about others but is not yet mature enough to understand herself. Also, she lives in a small rural town that "grew inward" (bottom of pg 174) and because of this, is sheltered from many things. Atticus lets his children explore as much as they really could in such a shy community.
DeleteI agree with Leah on this. Atticus shows a great deal that he is a great parent teaching Scout as much as she can, and Scout will eventually understand it. Not all things can be taught. Sometimes you just have let people figure it out on their own.
Deletei agree with how you say Holden is similar to a character in this book, but i don't think its scout. I think he's actually very similar to Boo Radley. Both characters are very misunderstood and people are very curious about who they really are. I'd love to see later on in the book if Boo becomes more significant and gets even more like Holden.
DeleteJared, i think that Holden and Jem are relatively similar based on how they react to these changes occur within them and how they handle the problem. Furthermore, i believe characteristics to describe them both would have to the insecure, puzzled, and confused because right now they are running into situations that put them in a position to make their own decision. Also, Do you believe Jem has matured to be a role model to Scout?
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Deleteno
DeleteI don't feel that Atticus influenced Scout by sheltering her. When Scout questions him about a what a n****r -lover was, Atticus fully and thoughtfully explains it. Also, when Scout asks about the trial, again Atticus explains he is defending a black man but it will be an unwinnable battle. He always answers Scouts question about 'adult topics' so I feel that Scout is not being sheltered.
DeleteCh 12 Pg 158*Calpurnia said “Stop right there n*****” Lula said “you ain’t got no business bringing white chillun here-they got their church and we got our’n-it is our church ain’t it Ms Cal? Calpurnia said, “It’s the same god, ain’t it?” Jem said, “Let’s go home, Cal, they don’t want us here.” My first reaction to ready that is, wow blacks and whites hated each other enough to tell people to leave their churches even with little children? I guess so. This shows the hatred that little kids dealt with back then. It is really sad being told that they can’t come into a church and pray to God because two races hate each other. That is very strong racism. Even though I like Calpurnia as a character because she is like a mother to the children and all but to enter a holy place and call people racial names probably set Lula off to tell them to leave. I can understand why she said it though. The hatred was so high back then between blacks and whites that every time one person who is white passes someone who is black people curse at each other. The children worst of all have to deal with hatred every day between these races. Even people who believe in the same religion and most importantly the religion that teaches peace and forgiveness can’t seem to be in the same church together.
ReplyDeletejoe,i happen to disagree with you about lula saying those nasty things. although she did not want them there they are just kids and most of the other fellow members of the church were fine. the other church goers have a great deal of support and kindness towards them because of the work atticus is doing. atticus is defending tom robinson, a wrongly accused african american man of rape, during his trial. there is the possibility that lula did not know this but everyone else did, so it is hard to believe that she didn't.Lula seems to be acting like the victim of racism when she,in fact, is the culprit.
DeleteChapter 12- Page 154 "... and by watching her I began to think there was some skill involved in being a girl." In this part of the book, it is the summer after Jem has started growing up, so Scout only has Calpurnia for company. She enjoys watching her in the kitchen, and thinks about being a girl. First, this shows that Scout has started to grow up her self, that she has been able to see the world as a young woman, not just a little girl. This will help her to be proud of who she is, no matter what stereotypes there are against her. Also, this is evidence about what life was like in the 1930's. Since Scout obviously thought that women were not very useful before Cal, she must have been raised that way. It can teach us about what their morals and ideas were like, and how different they were from today. This is an important turning point for Scout, when she will learn who she really can be. It is also a tool for us to use today, to better understand life during the Great Depression.
ReplyDeleteCharlotte, I definitely agree with you. I think that Scout subconciously knows that she's going to have to become "a lady" at some point and she's just dreading whenever that may be. After Aunt Alexandra comes in Chapter 13, I don't really like how she says that Scout needs a "real lady" in the house to help her become one, especially because Calpurnia is there almost constantly. I actually think it's a little rude.
DeleteYor are right Kathryn. It's a good way to put it that she has to become a "lady". It's a more descriptive way to say she has to mature, and I think it relates more to how Scout has to change, since she is very boyish right now and not very ladylike. And I also agree how Alexandra was wrong. Cal is one of the best female role models Scout can have. She's brave and proud to be who she is, and isn't afraid to express he opinion and do things her way.
DeleteChapter12 page165 "They can't read" "Can't read?"I asked "Can't but about four folks in First Purchase read...and I'm one of 'em". Scout and Jem are asking Calpurnia why her church didn't have any hymn-books. Cal said that it would be no use even if they could get them. Cal's reply was very shocking for Scout. Many blacks didn't have a proper education during this time because of discrimination. Scout, only being six years old, already knows how to read and write. This is very sad knowing that because of their race they couldn't get a good education.
ReplyDeleteI feel for Scout. This must have been a depressing wake-up call to her that not the whole world has had the luxury of education.
DeleteEven though Scout has seen children older than her failing in school, I don't think that she realized what a problem there was with education until that moment. Seeing adults who cannot read, that must have been shocking and extremely confusing to her. While we know it is because of racial discrimination, I am still not sure Scout does. I wonder if she thinks they are uneducated for the same reasons as the Ewells or Walter Cunningham. Up until that time, she hadn't really interacted with anyone black except for Cal and was sort of in her own little world.
DeleteChapter 13 : Page 137
ReplyDelete[ What did Scout mean when she stated " i know what he was trying to do, but Atticus was only a man. It takes a women to do that kind of work." )
Back then in the 1960's the time era was different. Atticus is a courageous and determined man.He is a single parent/ lawyer who works day and night. He tries to play both roles of mother and father but there is and always will be that role that he cant play no matter how hard he tries. This is what Scout is saying in this message. She realizes his hard work and determination and she praises him for it, but i believe shes trying to say that no matter how hard he tries he can't do certain stuff a mother does and that it takes a woman to accomplish those. For example this can include, advice. Atticus gives good advice like when it comes to Boo he states : "You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view - until you climb into his skin and walk around in it." But not the type of advice Scout would like to receive, there are just some topics that Scout can't talk about with him.
I Choose this quote because weather you have a mom and dad or a guardian that plays both roles, you can relate to Scout. We all understand the nobody can take a mothers role and way of dealing with situations and just being there for anything. Atticus intentions are admired and praised but He's got to understand how Scout feels and why she feels this way.
I really love this quote because it something every child (more importantly girls) can to relate to their fathers on. When your dad tries to get through to you but completely goes about it the wrong way because they are just not sure what to do..that was just like Atticus. I think the fact that he even attempted to have this conversation with them shoes how good of a parent he is. I also think it's important to note that Scout takes notice of this even though it didn't turn out as well as planned.
DeleteI really love this quote because it something every child (more importantly girls) can to relate to their fathers on. When your dad tries to get through to you but completely goes about it the wrong way because they are just not sure what to do..that was just like Atticus. I think the fact that he even attempted to have this conversation with them shoes how good of a parent he is. I also think it's important to note that Scout takes notice of this even though it didn't turn out as well as planned.
DeleteChapter 12, pg. 162 "The congregation stirred...'Nobody leaves here till we have ten dollars.'" Reverend Sykes says this to the church congregation when they're collecting the money for Tom Robinson's family because his wife can't support herself and the children by herself. Later, Reverend Sykes begins to "call people out" because they hadn't given money. While I agree that people should give to the family (or families) in need, I think it's somewhat unfair of him to a) tell everyone that there has to be $10 in the collection or they can't leave and b) that he begins to tell people that he didn't see them give any money to the family. I think these things are unfair because this book takes place during the Great Depression so of course some people won't be donating. They most likely aren't all able to support it, especially considering that they were most likely paid less than the whites. When I go to church, they don't force you to give money if you can't afford it. To me, it seems as though Reverend Sykes is somewhat threatening them, especially by telling someone to close the doors until they donate a total of $10. So, while I understand that Tom Robinson's family needs help and I'm sure a majority of the people would love to help, there's a big possiblity that they can't afford to help as much as they'd like to. I also think that this must have an effect on Jem and Scout's thoughts and opinions on the Tom Robinson case.
ReplyDeleteI agree, Kathryn, that it is not fair that the family should have to pay that amount of money if they can not afford it. However, the church is most definitely going through the same problems as the the people of the church are. The church needs money too. I think that the church should be requiring maybe $2 or $3 so that the church can have money, but seeing as it is the Great Depression, $10 is an absurd amount of money to require.
DeleteI completely agree with you Kathryn. I think that it is unfair that no one was allowed to leave until 10 dollars was collected. Many people definitely could not afford it, especially since it was during the Great Depression, and because they were black people, they more than likely got paid less compared to white people. I do think that it is a nice thing to do though. With Tom Robinson in trouble and all, the much needed money will definitely come in handy for his wife and family.
DeleteChapter 13, Page 178: "Atticus, is all this behavin' an' stuff gonna make things different? I mean are you-?"
ReplyDelete'I felt his hand on the back of my head.'
"Don't you worry about anything," He said. "Its not time to worry."
During this part of the chapter Atticus talks to Jem and Scout about how they have to behave and act more mature. The children don't seem to be doing anything wrong and I think that is also why Scout begins to be upset because she feels that everything is changing especially the people in her life. When Atticus tells Scout that "Its not time to worry," She seems more comforted and that he doesn't seem to be changing. I strongly feel that we all can relate to Scout and how in families things can change and it can be upsetting. Although everyone has to grow up there is always a little Scout inside everyone wishing that they could stay a young child.
meeghan, i completely agree. even though i am already a teenager, i still fear growing up. im afraid that soon i will have to become more responsible, and that just puts a damper on everything. i love your last line where you said that everyone has a little scout still in them because it is so true. a main theme in the book is growing up and scout defiantly has that fear and issue to deal with.
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DeleteYes I agree with you that scout really dislikes how everyone around her is changing. She probably isn't aware that even she is changing and maturing. Losing your innocence can really make you feel upset but in the long run it is probably a good thing to learn about the real world.
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Deletemeeghan, i completely agree. even i, a teenager, do not want to grow up. i fear that soon i am going to have to take on more responsibilities, and that just puts a damper on everything. i love your line that says there is still a little scout in everybody because it is so true. a big theme in the book is growing up and scout most defiantly struggles with this. she doesn't understand why she just cant just play and have fun. and i agree with her. she is only six years old and should enjoy her childhood while she can.
Deletemeeghan, i completely agree. even i, a teenager, do not want to grow up. i fear that soon i am going to have to take on more responsibilities, and that just puts a damper on everything. i love your line that says there is still a little scout in everybody because it is so true. a big theme in the book is growing up and scout most defiantly struggles with this. she doesn't understand why she just cant just play and have fun. and i agree with her. she is only six years old and should enjoy her childhood while she can.
Deletemeeghan, i completely agree. even i, a teenager, do not want to grow up. i fear that soon i am going to have to take on more responsibilities, and that just puts a damper on everything. i love your line that says there is still a little scout in everybody because it is so true. a big theme in the book is growing up and scout most defiantly struggles with this. she doesn't understand why she just cant just play and have fun. and i agree with her. she is only six years old and should enjoy her childhood while she can.
DeleteMeeghan, i agree with you i don't think Scout wants to grow up. I think Scout is scared of change and growing up and just wants everything to stay the same. But she knows changes happen and so does growing up.
DeleteI love how part two begins. Chapter 12 page 153, it starts with this: "Jem was twelve. He was difficult to live with, inconsistent, moody. His appetite was appalling, and he told me so many times to stop pestering him I consulted Atticus: "Reckon he's got a tapeworm?" Atticus said no, Jem was growing. I must be patient with him and disturb him as little as possible." It is interesting to read Scouts point of view of Jem getting to be teenager and growing. For fellow teens, this would be dismissed or considered normal because we are all going through it in our own way. Harper Lee does a fantastic job at channeling a little girl watching her older brother growing up. If you view it through Scout's eyes, I suppose it would seem a little strange. Jem no longer wants to play with his younger sister anymore and this could be disappointing to Scout, but sooner or later she is going to go through the same moody stage and not want anything to do with Jem. I am excited to see if Scout begins to change her curious behavior, watching her brother get older. I can predict that Jem will be making some much more mature decisions now that he is becoming more grown up.
ReplyDeleteI agree. Not too long ago in the story we saw how Jem cried about the tree being filled with cement but you can definitly see he is getting older and even the way Atticus talks to him seems more mature. And as for scout i think that she seems to be very independent in the way she acts. So even though Jem is changing and maybe giving her some influence it seems like she isn't the type of person that gets influenced that easily.
DeleteLauryn, I strongly feel that this is actually a really important theme that will run throughout this entire book. I think that Scout just doesn't want to be alone and certainly doesn't want to grow up herself. She doesn't want to become "a lady".
DeleteI agree with you Lauryn that Scout must find it strange to see her brother growing up. I am also interested in how Scout will grow up and change.
DeleteChapter 12 page 158, "You ain't got no buisness bringin' white chillun here-they got their church, we got our'n. It is our church, ain't it, Miss Cal?" Calpurnia said, "It's the same God, ain't it?" These are two quotes but i mainly chose it for what Calpurnia said and without Lulas words it wouldn't have made much sense. regardless, i love what Calpurnia says, because it's something that tells a lot about the time they live in. While people were seperated by color theres no reason why they can't have plenty of things in common, in this case their faith. There are instances in todays time that seperate people by one opposite thing, instead of brining us together because of the many things in common. For example, in sports there's all different ethinicitys and races, but no matter how different the person may look, speak or believe in, they all come to together to play as a team and nobody on the team cares where you came from but more of how you are as a player. And that's how people should be judged and i believe that quote gives a good example of judging by look not character, because while they seemed different, they really had a strong beliefe in common.
ReplyDeleteThat is a great quote Erik. I definitly agree with what you are saying that even though times are tough, there is still racism in a church, the only place where people come together to pray for better. The people who believe in the same religion and most importantly christianity, the religion that teaches forgiveness and peace cannot find peace in a church. Bottom line, I totally agree with what you are saying.
DeleteErik, I love the quote. i really like your comparison of how people of all different ethnicties and skin colors come together in sports just like they should in church. I agree that people deserved to be judged by who they are, not by what they look like. What Lula said is very suprising because I can guarantee she doesn't like being segrgated from whites, so why would she do it to others. From her words I can tell she is someone looking to retaliate for what was done to her, instead of someone that knows right from wrong.
DeleteI used the same quote and totally agree with you. Jonah, i agree with you too when you said that Lula doesn't like being segregated from whites and to add to that i think it's more because she is segregated from whites that she doesn't like them. I also agree with you Joe when you said that people can't find peace in a church. I think Lula should have let it slide because all Calpurnia was doing was caring for the children and Lula should respect her kindness.
DeleteChapter 12, page 154: " With him, life was routine; without him, life was unbearable." At the time of Dill's absence, Scout describes his absence as sad and depressing and relating it to being "unbearable." When Dill leaves to go with new father, he sends photos of his new father and an apology letter saying why he left and why it was on such short notice. I believe that Scout was feeling left out and upset by this and causing her to be lonely. Also, while Jem begins to mature, he begins to lose interest in the games and hobbies Scout, Dill, and he used to play causing Scout to be lonely as well as without Dill. I can closely relate this to when i was younger and my father had left to go on a business trip in Europe. I always played with my Dad on the weekends and it seemed like he was someone i could look up to, but on his business trip i was basically not as lively and happy as i was when he was here. I also was not looking forward to the weekends as much as i did back then and as well a playing sports with my Dad on the weekends. Although my Dad was on a business trip, I was still upset by his absence as well as Scout being upset by Dill and Jem not being there for her as they usually would be.
ReplyDeleteChapter 12, p. 154-155 “ The governor was eager to scrape a few barnacles off the ship of state; there were sit-down strikes in Birmingham; bread lines in the cities grew longer, people in the country grew poorer.” Scout explains how the Great Depression is affecting the people in the state worse than it had before. This reminds me how in class we analyzed pictures of the Great Depression and saw how things were in the city and urban areas. When Scout said “bread lines,” I remember looking at the picture with numerous people waiting in line to get food. As I read on page 160, Cal gave Scout and Jem a dime each for offering even though they had their own. Cal requested on not using theirs because they were her company. This relates to me when I go to church Sundays, and receive money from my parents to give as an offering.
ReplyDeletenatalie, i liked how you talked about the great depression. although it is happening in the book, it really isn't talked about much because it is the point of view of a six year old girl. i wouldnt have thought to write about this quote myself but i am glad that yoy did. i also like that you tied in lessons from english class because i now understand what picture you are talking of.
DeleteChapter 13 pg 173 On this page Scout states the Aunt Alexandra judges a persons family by how long they have been in town, the longer the better. Which makes Jem say "That makes Ewells good folks then." by Aunt Alexandras standards yes they would be for they have lived in Maycomb for a very long time. However, by Scouts standards you should judge a person on their common sense and how they treat others which is highly mature for someone at her age. I totally agree with Scouts way of judging people by their merit, while it is almost certain the Atticus taught her that it is amazing that she has adapted that way of thinking. I don't think you should judge anyone based and their family it's like judging a whole race because of one persons actions. It is not logical and quite frankly ignorant, while you can notice patterns it doesn't mean everyone fits it. Take Atticus for an example, almost every Finch has lived on Finches landing but Atticus chose to move to Maycomb so you see that you can't judge how someone will act based on their family. I believe that
ReplyDeleteAtticus and Aunt Alexandra are symbols for this argument, Atticus represents a somewhat forward idea of thinking that you should judge someone on their merit and moral. While Aunt Alexandra represents a more old school thought of judging people based on their roots. You can see an example of this clash later on in the chapter when Atticus goes to talk to Jem and Scout about living up to their family name. You can obviously see by the end of the conversation that Atticus is doubting what he just told the children. This is a small example but shows that Aunt Alexandra wants the children to be "proper" and follow the flow of society. While Atticus wants the children to be there own person and go against like Atticus. Who moved away from Finches Landing a normal place of lodging for his family and taking the Tom Robinson case which goes against the normal values of the residents of Maycomb.
Chapter 13- page 173 " I never understood her preoccupation with heredity."-Scout. Aunt Alexandra is always worrying about peoples past and how that makes people who they are. I disagree with Aunt Alexandra's way of thinking because if someones family comes from a sketchy past that doesn't mean that, that individual will be the same as his/her family. One must not judge people by their family tree. I think that scout is right and Aunt Alexandra shouldn't care what people think about her and her family. while I still get the idea of family pride, I don't think it's important what other people think, if you know whats true about your family.
ReplyDeleteChaper 12, pg. 167 "...Folks don't like to have somebody around knowin' more than they do...there's nothing you can do but keep your mouth shut or talk their language." Cal says this to Jem and Scout after church after the kids are questioning her and why she was talking differently than usual. Here, Calpurnia explains her understanding of different kinds of people. Cal speaks proper English around the Jem and Scout at home because she knows they will not be intimidated or angry about how she is more knowledgable than them. At church, I believe Cal is showing respect for the people in her community by speaking the way they do. However, I feel that it is upsetting that Cal needs change who she is and that the other people in her community will not respect her, as she is doing to them, because she is smarter than them and they feel intimidated. Cal explains this when she says that people do not like being around other people who are smarter than them. In our world today, people change depending on who they are with, just like Cal did, in order to meet societies standards and be accepted by the people around them.
ReplyDeleteI agree its sad that in our society people have to change to the different people they are with, because of this I can better understand why Cal does this. However, I don't think its right that she changes she should be herself and she is an educated woman. She is giving the impression that by talking in proper English she would be almost boasting that she could properly speak. I think Cal is afraid that she will lose her friends during a time in which friends were needed. Still she I believe the way she explained why to the kids was superb.
DeleteZach, I completely agree with you when you say that she should always be the educated women she is and she has every right to show that. She should not condescend, but instead be the person she really is and show that she is very wise. I also very much agree that Cal is afraid to lose friends because like you said, this was a time when friends were needed most.
DeleteZach, I completely agree that Cal should be the educated women she really is and she has every right to show that. She is very wise, clever and knowledgable and should not be judged because of that. People should look up to Cal instead of her condescending and being like everyone else because she is not. I also agree that Cal is afraid she will lose her friends and during this time, like you said, friends were needed the most. Cal should be allowed to show off her knowledge and should not be judged.
DeleteZach, I completely agree that Cal should be the educated women she really is and she has every right to show that. She is very wise, clever and knowledgable and should not be judged because of that. People should look up to Cal instead of her condescending and being like everyone else because she is not. I also agree that Cal is afraid she will lose her friends and during this time, like you said, friends were needed the most. Cal should be allowed to show off her knowledge and should not be judged.
Deletesorry i did that 3 times it wasn't working
DeleteCh. 12, p. 162 “this is not enough, we must have ten dollars.” The Reverend Sykes says this to all people in the church, this happened when Calpurnia, Jem and Scout are in the church where black people go to worship God. they want to collect ten dollars for Tom Robinson’s wife, because she not have a job and she not have money to maintain her sons. I think what the Reverend did is an act of charity, because he wants to help Tom Robinson’s wife and all people in the church are like a family but it is funny b/c the Reverend Sykes says, Shut the doors. Nobody leaves here till we have 10 dollars.” If I was the Reverend Sykes, I’d do the same as he to help others. Someday we will need help from someone and if we help others, there are chances to help us too. I think that is the message of the Reverend Sykes.
ReplyDeleteCh 13 Pg 170 (Aunt Alexandra) “…It won’t be many years Jean-Louise before you become interested in clothes and boys.” I (Scout) could have made several answers to this: Cal’s a girl, it would be many years that I will become interested in boys, I would never become interested in clothes. Even though Scout is very smart and mature for her age this moment shows that she is still a child. Alexandra was saying this to her because she is an adult and she knows this is going to happen. Scout thinks that she won’t change at all. This is common today because children think that adults don’t know them and that they don’t know everything about growing up. Alexandra knows about growing up more than Scout and Alexandra has had experiences about growing up. It is common that girls are more of a tomboy in their younger ages, and as they get older they become more like a normal woman. Scout insists that she will never be more lady-like, and that just shows an immature side of her, because, in reality it’s going to happen. The same to younger boys, they might want to be a fireman at a younger age and as they get older, they want to be a lawyer. Scout is showing that lack of experience of growing up that Alexandra knows about.
ReplyDeleteChapter 13 Page 177: “And that you should try to live up to your name." As said by Atticus, i believe that by him saying this he is saying that Jem and Scout are not as they were when they were younger, they have matured and grown up into young adults. Also, now that they are mature they will have to learn to live up to their name and as well as making mature decisions. I can relate to this because i am the eldest sibling next to my younger sister. I have to be a role model as well as someone my sister can look up to. Furthermore, i have to be able to put a good name to my family as well as looking up to my parents.
ReplyDeleteI strongly agree with you Harrison (Kane). Putting a good name to your family is what every family wants to do to put great pride in their parents. This could also be connected today. Every eldest child has to set a role model for their siblings so they don't end of misbehaving in the future. In the case of Jem, I see that he is turning into a young Atticus. His behavior and the smartness he is getting reminds me of Atticus.
Deletech.13 p.170
ReplyDelete"we decided that it would be best for you to have some feminine influence"
in this chapter, aunt Alexandra moves in with scout,jem and their father. jem nor scout arent very happy about this. alexandra is upset that scout doesn't act very lady like and that she doesn't live up to their family name. alexandra demonstrates a form of gender prejudice that isnt seem very often in this book but does still play a role. scout seems to be more of a "tom boy" than a "girly girl". i believe that scout doesnt need to change and that alexandra has the wrong idea. there s nothing wrong with being a tom boy and just because scout would rather be playing in the back yard than having tea with the girls doesnt mean anything is wrong with her. in fact, growing up i happened to be a tom boy like scout. i always spent hours outside playing with the neighborhood boys, and i still do. i always came home muddy and dirty but i looked at it as i "just had a great time". i happen to be fine now and so alexandra should learn that scout is happy being a tomboy and she shouldn't have to compromise her happiness just to be like a girl.
Chapter 13, Page 178 "Atticus, is all this behavin' an' stuff gonna make things different? I mean are you-?" When Aunt Alexandria comes to live with Scout, Jem, and Atticus, Aunt Alexandria seems that she wants to let the kids know that they will have to sooner or later enter maturity. There's maturity throughout the book, but it all starts when Jem is twelve. The change occurs because Jem is going through puberty and now is trying to use the knowledge he gains. He is seeing things differently as he ages and acts more like an adult than a child. He is taken to reading instead of playing childish games. At this point, Atticus knows that he is growing or entering puberty. Scout starts to cry towards the end of chapter 13 because of everyone around her that is around her age starts to change and this is why it might upset her. I could relate to this of how everyone goes though puberty and how I would feel if everyone was changing except me. I would feel left out because of how everyone's mood is changing and showing that they would not want to be near someone who is younger than me. This message that Atticus tells both Jem and Scout could relate to the themes of the book of maturity and growing up.
ReplyDeleteJames, I agree that one of the themes in the book is maturity and growing up. It is continuously discussed and brought up. Even though it is not made too obvious, you can tell that growing up is a big part of the children's lives and and a major theme in this novel. Even Scout realizes that Jem is growing up and changing and Scout follows in his foot steps and learns from him. Puberty also gets brought up, like you said, and is a form of getting older. This proves that as you continue to read, the thought of maturity and growing up progresses.
DeleteJames, i totally agree. We do get a sense especially in this part of the book of maturity in characters such as Jem and Scout. Jem begins to mature and starts to present himself in such a way that people may not even recognize him. He will also want to live up to his full potential and even be a role model to Scout. Scout begins to mature through her actions. Furthermore, she begins to reflect on her mistakes so that she is aware not to do it again.
DeleteWhile reading chapter 13, Aunt Alexandra made a statement that she would be staying in the house for a while. In this chapter, Aunt Alexandra is only there to help Scout become more like a girl, rather than a boy. In previous chapters, she complained about Scout not being "lady-like." This was important to her because she’s concerned about how the family would be viewed by in their community. It’s not Scouts fault that she isn’t the way her aunt wants her to be. She likes who she is, and there should be no one there to change that. Aunt Alexandra should learn to respect who and how she is, as I know she wants others to respect her. There are many girls in today’s world that have their own style and way of being.
ReplyDelete"we're mighty glad to have you all here." P.159. Zeebo, who was the garbage collectors, had said this to Jem and Scout when they arrived at Calpurnia's church. He had said this after their presence in a negro church had been questioned by Lulu. In this quote, Zeebo is teaching the children not to exclude others because of their race. This lesson being taught to the children is one of many that Scout and especially Jem experience throughout the book, making that one of the book's major themes.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you Scott that one of the themes in the book is excluding others because of race or being different, etc. But this could be shown today of people getting excluded in certain things. These could be because of social groups, clubs, jobs, etc. The only point is that the events that happen in this book, are also present today.
DeleteChapter13 page171 "Aunty had a way of declaring What Is Best For The Family, and I suppose her coming to live with us was in that category." Aunt Alexandra comes to live with the Finchs during this chapter and Scout doesn't seem to like this very much. Scout spends most her time with Calpurnia while Aunt Alexandra is socializing with the women of Maycomb. Alexandra criticizes the way that Atticus disciplines his children making him change how he normally is while she stays with them. This doesn't help that she trying to make Scout act more lady like. Scout starts to realize that being a lady isn't all that bad. This shows that she too is growing up which is the reason for Aunt Alexandra being there to help Atticus.
ReplyDeleteMelissa, i agree with you Aunt Alexandra criticizing the way Atticus disciplines Scout and Jem and then Atticus changing the way he acts doesn't help Scout like having her aunt around. And that Aunt Alexandra was telling Scout she should be more lady like. i think by Aunt Alexandra doing this its not giving Scout a chance to actual enjoy that her aunt is staying with them.
DeleteMelissa, I agree, Scout obviously doesn't like Aunt Alexandra very well and realizes that Aunt Alexandra spends most of her time talking to other Maycomb ladies about other peoples flaws and denies that her own family has flaws as well. I also noticed that Aunt Alexandra being present at the Finches house makes Atticus change is character a little bit, like when he was talking to Jem and Scout at night and suddenly made Scout cry because he was acting different. In my opinion there is no good reason for Aunt Alexandra to be there because Cal is a women to and can be as good an influence to scout as Aunt Alexandra can.
DeleteI agree with you Melissa that Scout is definitely learning that soon enough she will be the one growing up and that being a little girly may not be as bad as she though.
Deletechapter 13 page 170 "We decided that it would be best for ouy to have some feminine influence. It won't be many years, Jean Louise, before you become intrested in clothes and boys-" throughout the story we've seen that scouts not the girliest of girls and her answer after this statment also says that. But now we see that aunt Alexandra is becoming more important in the story especially to scout. What she's saying to do is not the important thing, but just to keep in mind now for later in the story to see if aunt Alexandra does something very significant and gets to scout on a close level, i wouldn't be too surprised. I think we could all relate to this one way or another because we all have the crazy aunt or silly grandparent so we know how scout feels. And, like her, we ignore them and think "eh well who cares what they say anyway" but we know deep down they can teach us just as much as our parents and maybe in some wasy, we feel more comftorable telling them things that we dont like teling our parents.
ReplyDeleteErik, I can connect to what you are saying because I too have an Aunt and Uncle that know how it feels growing up. I think they know more than my parents which turns out to be funny. But going back to the story, Aunt Alexandria is there for mostly Scout, since she being the aunt in helping her out in growing up. In a way you can see Aunt Alexandria take in the form of a mom that both Jem and Scout didn't really have or knew. She tries to help them grow up and be mature, but mostly pays attention to Scout.
Delete"we're mighty glad to have you all here." (chapter 12, page 159) This is what Zeebo says to Jem and Scout when they go to the First Purchase, a church for black people, with Calpurnia. I think the reason most of the black people at the church were being so respectful to Jem and Scout, including Reverend Sykes, was because Atticus is trying to help Tom Robinson get out of jail. Tom and his wife, Helen, go to that First Purchase Church. Usually, I believe the black people wouldnt be as respectful to a white person coming to their church because white people always try to separate blacks back then. White people had there church, and blacks had theirs.
ReplyDeleteI found a connection to "Catcher in the Rye" on page 153 of chapter 12. Scout explains how she didnt like Jem growing up and changing so much. "Overnight, it seemed, Jem had acquired an Alien set of values and was trying to impose them on me: several times he went as far as to tell me what to do..." Scout also shows discomfort when Calpurnia calls Jem "Mister Jem". Scout responds to this with "He ain't that old," In "Catcher in the Rye", Holden doesn't like seeing his little sister growing up. He is appalled by the way she acts, just like Scout is to the way Jem acts.
Katie, I agree that black people might not usually have been as respectful, however since Jem and Scout are the kids of Atticus who is helping Tom Robinson, circumstances change. No longer would they be shunned away from the church, but welcomed with open arms. And I truly do believe that while a visit from the Finch children was not expected by the members of the church, the members of the church really were glad that they were there.
DeleteChapter 13 P.169 "For awhile in Maycomb meant anywhere from three days to thirty days." I think this line has a very important meaning. When Scout says this to Aunt Alexandra, what comes to my mind is the great depression. This is a perfect example of what people, especially in a small town like Maycomb, probably experienced during those hard times. One never knew how long 'awhile' would be, because things financially at this time was so unpredictable. The fact that Scout and Jem both take note of that, show this to be an excellent example of life during the Great Depression. I think this is a strong quote and a great book
ReplyDeleteChapter 12 page 158, Lula says, "I wants to know why you bringin' white chillun to n****r church." During this historical time period and throughout this book, the themes of segregation and racism are repeated often. Calpurnia's whole argument on page 158 is about Jem and Scout. These themes are evident in the case of Tom Robinson too. This theme is also evident in our modern society today. Luckily it is not as bad as it has been in the past but I think we can all agree that there is definitely still racism. Lastly, on a seperate note, I also think that Lula should leave Jem and Scout alone because they haven't been disrespectful in any way and their father is defending a black man in court.
ReplyDeleteChapter 13, pg. 173 "I never understood her preoccupation with heredity. Somewhere, I had received the impression that Fine Folks were people who did the best they could with the sense they had, but Aunt Alexandra was of the opinion, obliquely expressed, that the longer a family had been squatting on one patch of land the finer it was." Scout says this while talking with Aunt Alexandra about ancestors and hereditary. Here, Scout is explaining how differently she and Aunt Alexandra see the world. Scout is much younger, but has a more mature understanding of people than Aunt Alexandra. Aunt Alexandra is too wrapped up in being judged on your ancestors and your family but in reality, you shouldn't be judged on who your relatives are but who YOU are. You also shouldn't be judged what your ancestors have done, just because they made a bad choice it doesn't mean you will do the same. What goes through your mind isn't hereditary, only physical characteristics are. However, Scout sees people for who they are, not what their ancestors have done. In the beginning of the novel, Scout also shows pride in ancestry and "tradition" while Aunt Alexandra does not as much and is quick to judge. Many people in our society today are quick to judge based on family but it is unfair for those who are judged. Especially in schools, you hear about teachers who disliked siblings of the students they have now and automatically assume they will be the same. People should not be judged on ancestors because personalities aren't hereditary and it is unfair to be judgmental based on a persons family.
ReplyDeleteChapter 13, page 170: “We decided that it would be best for you to have some feminine influence.” This was said by Aunt Alexandra towards Scout, once she told them that she would be staying with them for awhile. Scout is a tom-boy, and she is not and does not act lady like at all. Aunt Alexandra has come to help change that. I don’t really agree with Aunt Alexandra coming to stay with them. I don’t see why she needs to make Scout more lady like. Aunt Alexandra also wants to protect the family name. I think that she needs to give Atticus credit for what he has done with the kids. He has raised them almost all by himself, and holds a full time job and he deserves that credit. His kids are also very well behaved and overall good kids. I think that Aunt Alexandra, although with good intentions, needs to look at the bigger picture, and just accept that Scout is who she is. And, Scout already does have a female figure in her life- Cal.
ReplyDeletechapter 12 page 154
ReplyDeleteShe seemed glad to see me when I appeared in the kitchen, and by watching her I began to think there was some skill involved in being a girl.
i think he started thinking tha womans are important as mens. womans can have differents jobs, not olnly in the kitchen. all mens thinks that the job of womans are easy. but the jobs that womans do at home maybe are more hard and difficult that the job of the mens. i think he knows that a job of a woman is hard and to do it, you have to have some skills to do these jobs.
I agree with you eddison, that some jobs of the women are more hard that the job of the men , like in the kitchen most women do everything.
DeleteChap. 12 page 167
ReplyDelete“The idea that she had a separate existence outside our household was a novel one, to say nothing of having a command of two languages “ When Cal talks to Jem and Scout she talks to them more in a polite manner. When Jem, Scout and Cal go to church, Cal sees a black woman by the name of Lula who begins to talk to her. When Cal starts talking to the Lula she talks to her differently. I think this statement in the novel means people change themselves to fit what other people want to see or hear. For example people today change the way they dress or the way they act to fit in with a certain crowd of people. Cal spoke to the lady differently then she spoke to Jem and Scout I think because she thought that’s they way she feels she’s supposed to talk to people of her skin color.
I agree with you that many people today change themselves to try and fit in, maybe Cal feels more comfortable talking to people from her church that way because they talk the same way.
DeleteChapter 13 page 169, Aunt Alexandra says to Scout, "Jem's growing up now and you are too." I think that Scout was very surprised by this and the following statement because she is not used to it. She isn't used to people growing up because she hasn't really reached that stage yet. On the next page Aunt Alexandra says, "We decided it would be best for you to have some feminine influence." Scout's reply to this was one of disgust. She is used to playing with Jem and the boys and doesn't hang out with the girls as much. I disagree with what Aunt Alexandra is saying because people should be able to do what they want and certain ideals shouldn't be forced upon people just because someone else thinks it is better. People are forced to do things all the time and i think Aunt Alexandra is being a little harsh with it. I think she should just give a few suggestions and Scout should listen to her. Sometimes we all need a little help from someone older especially as we are growing up like Scout.
ReplyDeletechapter12, pg 143, ""Cal, can I come see you sometimes?" She looked down at me. "see me honey? You see me every day."" I chose this quote because it shows that Scout is becoming conches of the differences between people and is becoming curious which is unusual for people around that time period.
ReplyDeleteJem: "I can't remember everything Finches are supposed to do..."
ReplyDeleteAtticus: "I don't want you to remember it. Forget it."
This conversation happens on page 179 and brings chapter 13 to a close. The most obvious difference between Atticus and his sister is probably his need to break away from his family, and this causes many problems between them. Aunt Alexandria feels that Scout and Jem don't know enough about their family and is often disappointed by their lack of family pride. This theme of strained family relations is slightly new within the story and I'm excited to see how it evolves. Even though Scout, Jem and Atticus are closer than most children and parents in Maycomb, they are extremely detached from their other relatives. While I can see how Atticus wouldn't want is children to be proud of their crazy cousin Joshua, who tried to shoot the president, or his sister's sometimes mean and outspoken ideas, I thought he would be smart enough to know that there is something to be learned from everyone. I wonder why he separates himself from his family. Does he not trust Scout and Jem to form their own opinions about their family? When his brother visited for the holidays, they seemed to get along well enough but he doesn't visit regularly even though he doesn't live far away. I wonder if the economic situation of the time also plays a part in this. I wanted to see if there is a characteristic of finches, the birds, that could explain why they aren't a closer family since we have learned that the way a mockingbird fiercely protects its nest will somehow play into the story. I found that finches, even though they come in a wide variety, usually live best in tight knit groups or pairs. This newfound knowledge caused these lines to stand out to me,
Atticus: "Son, you know you're a Finch, don't you?"
Jem: "That's what I've been told."
These were previous lines from the same conversation in chapter 13 on page 177. Atticus seemed to have finally succumb to Aunt Alexandria's influence and tried to impress upon his children a sense of family pride, but his abnormal behavior only seemed to worry Scout and Jem. Atticus is usually the one the children come to for help or advice because he can offer a strong argument, he is a lawyer. Throughout this conversation, he seemed undecided and slightly confused. This is the first time that it seems that there are some soft spots in Atticus' teachings. What are your opinions on family relations and what do you think will happen in the rest of the novel?
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ReplyDeleteChapter 13, Page 170. “We decided it would be best for you to have some feminine influence. It won’t be many years, Jean Louise, before you become interested in clothes and boys” Throughout the novel we see that Scout is not a girly girl and seems to like being one of the guys. When Aunt Alexandra says this to Scout she not happy with it but Scout stays quiet. In a way, when Aunt Alexandra says this its almost like how Cal talks differently to whites and blacks (chap.12). Cal talks to them the way she feels that she’s supposed to talk to them. And I think Aunt Alexandra feels that’s since Scouts a girl she should act like one. And when Aunt Alexandra says this to Scout its like she’s trying to make Scout something she’s not and I think that’s why it bothered her when it was said. Today there are people that feel that there is a certain way to act according to your gender.
ReplyDeleteGabrielle, I agree. Aunt Alexandra is always going on about how Scout should act more lady like because she is a girl and that isn't right because it doesn't matter if your a girl or a boy they should be able to act anyway they chose to. Scout isn't like most girls back then and I think that because Scout likes to play with the boys doesn't mean she is doing something wrong. I think that your right when you said that people today think there is a certain way to act according to your gender.
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ReplyDeleteMeeghan G.Feb 29, 2012 01:49 PM
meeghan, i completely agree. even i, a teenager, do not want to grow up. i fear that soon i am going to have to take on more responsibilities, and that just puts a damper on everything. i love your line that says there is still a little scout in everybody because it is so true. a big theme in the book is growing up and scout most defiantly struggles with this. she doesn't understand why she just cant just play and have fun. and i agree with her. she is only six years old and should enjoy her childhood while she can.
Ch. 12 p.153 "Jem was 12. He was difficult to live with, inconsistent, moody. His appetite was appalling...Jem was growing."
ReplyDeleteCh. 12 p.154 "But summer came and Dill was not there...The letter said he had a new father...he would have to stay in Meridian..."
In the beginning of chapter 12, there are many changes going on around Scout. Instead of her familiar summer filled with adventures with Jem and Dill, both of them are gone. Jem is becoming farther removed from Scout each day. Dill is now living with his dad in Meridian. On top of all that, Atticus was away for two weeks (and she is not allowed to fight, so other kids are ruled out), so all Scout was left with was Calpurnia and Ms. Maudie. She ends up spending a lot of time with Calpurnia. Focusing on Jem, I think it is kind of sad that he and Scout aren't spending much time together. They used to be closer and now Jem is distancing himself. Yes, it's natural that he wants to do more adult things since he's growing up, but I think he should make some time for Scout.
Chapter 12 page 166. "But Cal," Jen pretestd, "you don't look even near as old as Atticus."
ReplyDelete"Colored fBbolks don't show their ages so fast," she said. "Maybe because they can't read. Cal, did you teach Zeebo?"
"Yea, Mister Jen. There wasn't a school even when he was a boy. I made him learn, though." Zeebo was Calpuria's eldest son. "Did you teach him out of a primer, like us" I asked. "No. I made him get a page of the Bible every day, and there was a book Miss Buford taught me out of - bet you
don't know where I g:ot it," she said. I think that if you want to learn how to read, write. And if you know someone who knows how to read, and write we should come yo that person and ask if they can help us lear.
Chapter 12 page 157, "Negros worshiped in it on Sundays and white men gambled in it on weekdays," said Scout as she describes the church of colored people, the First Purchase African M.E. Church. This quote illustrates discrimination throughout colored and white people which was a major conflict during the time period the book took place in. This demonstrates that white people were very disrespectful and uncaring towards colored people in any aspect of what they did and what was suppose to be reserved for the colored. They didn't care weather it was for the colored, if it was useful to them they would use it without thinking about what the others felt. I feel that there shouldn't of been discrimination because many white's practiced the same religion as blacks and if they really were religious, they should of felt that by gambling in a black church, home to the same god as theirs, they were sinning. Although it was a black church, it was the same god and white's aren't that different from colored people.
ReplyDelete